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	<title>Comments on: Christian Culture and Secularization</title>
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	<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/</link>
	<description>Dealing with issues in reformed theology.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: davey</title>
		<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>davey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.solagratia.org/?p=30#comment-57</guid>
		<description>this was very helpful, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this was very helpful, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Camden Bucey</title>
		<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Camden Bucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.solagratia.org/?p=30#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Middleton &#38; Walsh on the issue:&lt;sup&gt;&lt;a href="#reference1"&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Where did things go wrong?  How did our world view, evidenced in our way of life, come to be at odds with the Scriptures?  The answer could be summed up in one word: dualism.  Dualism is a split-vision world view.  It separates reality into two fundamentally distinct categories: holy and profane, sacred and secular.

Now there is a world of difference between &lt;i&gt;dualism&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;duality&lt;/i&gt;.  Christian discipleship forces us to recognize duality in life: &lt;i&gt;either&lt;/i&gt; we serve the Lord &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; we follow idols.  Dualism blurs the valid duality between obedience and disobedience because dualism identifies obedience, redemption and the kingdom of God with only &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; area of life.  It sees the rest of life as either unrelated to redemption (or the sacred), or worse - under the power of disobedience, sin and the kingdom of darkness.

In the place of a biblical understanding of the kingdom of God as God's rule over all of creation, the kingdom is identified with what has been called our spiritual life.  Most people consider the spiritual life to be something relating to prayer, Bible study, fellowship and evangelism.  And in what cultural institution do these activities occur?  In the church.

So the kingdom of God (or the sacred) comes to be identified primarily with the church, while the rest of life is seen as secular.  When people begin to feel the limitations of such a sacred/secular dualism, they say that the gospel must be "made relevant" to the rest of society.  But what they often mean is that one institution, the church, must be made relevant to the other cultural institutions (the family, school, state, and so on).  The dualism remains.  We still have two separate institutions which must somehow be related.  Life is still fragmented.

This world view is dualistic because it has superimposed on the structure of creation the â€œdirectionalâ€ question of obedience or disobedience.  The dualist understands the good-evil distinction (which is really a question of obedience or disobedience) as a distinction within the structure of creation.

Picture again the electrical cord.  Like the cord, life is one complex structure made up of many strands, spheres of activity.  On each wire the current can be positive or negative.  Just so, the current of our activity may be either obedient toward God's creational laws or disobedient.  Dualism, however, confuses structure and direction.  Rather than seeing how the directional question runs through &lt;i&gt;all of life&lt;/i&gt;, it identifies the direction with &lt;i&gt;particular parts&lt;/i&gt; of the structure.  Some aspects of culture are viewed as irredeemable (that is, inherently disobedient), while others are open to redemption.  Such dualism distorts our lives because it distorts reality.

Dualism is not only a theoretical problem for professional theologians.  It is &lt;i&gt;the&lt;/i&gt; fundamental world view problem which has plagued the history of the church and still plagues us.  A person with a dualistic world view simply assumes that life has two distinct realms.  As James Olthuis says in &lt;i&gt;Out of Concern for the Church&lt;/i&gt;, â€œThis is his way-of-looking-at-things.  No matter what he does, he does it within and from out of this 'two-realm' view.  This view becomes his 'guide' in creation.â€  Dualism shows up in at least three ways: how we view work, how we view culture and how we read the Bible.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a name="reference1" /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://bookstore.solagratia.org/Books/0877849730"&gt;The Transforming Vision: Shaping a Christian Worldview&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1984), 95-96.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Middleton &amp; Walsh on the issue:<sup><a href="#reference1">1</a></sup><i></p>
<blockquote><p>
Where did things go wrong?  How did our world view, evidenced in our way of life, come to be at odds with the Scriptures?  The answer could be summed up in one word: dualism.  Dualism is a split-vision world view.  It separates reality into two fundamentally distinct categories: holy and profane, sacred and secular.</p>
<p>Now there is a world of difference between <i>dualism</i> and <i>duality</i>.  Christian discipleship forces us to recognize duality in life: <i>either</i> we serve the Lord <i>or</i> we follow idols.  Dualism blurs the valid duality between obedience and disobedience because dualism identifies obedience, redemption and the kingdom of God with only <i>one</i> area of life.  It sees the rest of life as either unrelated to redemption (or the sacred), or worse - under the power of disobedience, sin and the kingdom of darkness.</p>
<p>In the place of a biblical understanding of the kingdom of God as God&#8217;s rule over all of creation, the kingdom is identified with what has been called our spiritual life.  Most people consider the spiritual life to be something relating to prayer, Bible study, fellowship and evangelism.  And in what cultural institution do these activities occur?  In the church.</p>
<p>So the kingdom of God (or the sacred) comes to be identified primarily with the church, while the rest of life is seen as secular.  When people begin to feel the limitations of such a sacred/secular dualism, they say that the gospel must be &#8220;made relevant&#8221; to the rest of society.  But what they often mean is that one institution, the church, must be made relevant to the other cultural institutions (the family, school, state, and so on).  The dualism remains.  We still have two separate institutions which must somehow be related.  Life is still fragmented.</p>
<p>This world view is dualistic because it has superimposed on the structure of creation the â€œdirectionalâ€ question of obedience or disobedience.  The dualist understands the good-evil distinction (which is really a question of obedience or disobedience) as a distinction within the structure of creation.</p>
<p>Picture again the electrical cord.  Like the cord, life is one complex structure made up of many strands, spheres of activity.  On each wire the current can be positive or negative.  Just so, the current of our activity may be either obedient toward God&#8217;s creational laws or disobedient.  Dualism, however, confuses structure and direction.  Rather than seeing how the directional question runs through <i>all of life</i>, it identifies the direction with <i>particular parts</i> of the structure.  Some aspects of culture are viewed as irredeemable (that is, inherently disobedient), while others are open to redemption.  Such dualism distorts our lives because it distorts reality.</p>
<p>Dualism is not only a theoretical problem for professional theologians.  It is <i>the</i> fundamental world view problem which has plagued the history of the church and still plagues us.  A person with a dualistic world view simply assumes that life has two distinct realms.  As James Olthuis says in <i>Out of Concern for the Church</i>, â€œThis is his way-of-looking-at-things.  No matter what he does, he does it within and from out of this &#8216;two-realm&#8217; view.  This view becomes his &#8216;guide&#8217; in creation.â€  Dualism shows up in at least three ways: how we view work, how we view culture and how we read the Bible.
</p></blockquote>
<p><a name="reference1" /><br />
<a href="http://bookstore.solagratia.org/Books/0877849730">The Transforming Vision: Shaping a Christian Worldview</a></i> (Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1984), 95-96.</p>
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		<title>By: Camden Bucey</title>
		<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Camden Bucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.solagratia.org/?p=30#comment-32</guid>
		<description>For the purpose of this post, I chose three examples of what I view as insufficient biblical worldviews.  These examples were in no way to be definitive or exhaustive, but simple, brief examples.  The first two (home schooling and Christian music) were designed to illustrate a focus on a Christian â€œseparationistâ€ mindset or over-secularization.  The [terribly simplistic] theonomy example was intended to show the other side of secularization â€“ instead of separating from the world, you move to influence the world [primarily through government] in an attempt to assimilate the world.

My intention was not to claim that all home schooling proliferates a misunderstanding of the Christianâ€™s responsibility to their children, but that those who already have the â€œseparationistâ€ mindset proliferate the misunderstanding.  I repeatedly used words such as â€œoccasionallyâ€ to limit these statements to a small subset of [in this example] home schooling people.  Certainly there are other groups of Christians that can fall prey to a separatist worldview.

As far as what the proper understanding of raising children should be, I would [briefly] say the parentâ€™s responsibility is to teach their children Godâ€™s precepts and to help apply Biblical truth [primarily] in the childâ€™s life situations.  For example, if a child is caught shoplifting a pack of gum, the parentâ€™s responsibility would be to [along with punish] show the child how shoplifting dishonors God and to offer the child Godâ€™s love and forgiveness in order to help him/her understand his/her sin and the possibility of redemption through Jesus Christ.  Parents should teach their children how to be salt and light in the world, not just to teach them to stay away from the world.  I believe a Christian parent has a certain amount of freedom deciding how they want to do this â€“ whether that involves home schooling or not is up to the parent.

You wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Further, not all behind what these Baptist-types are doing and saying is wrong. Much of the separationist movement is motivated by a genuine desire to be holy (which is certainly a valid biblical mandate). I think to give a fair argument you need to do some more work evaluating both sides of the coin. I'm not sure that quoting 1 Cor 9:19-21 is enough support. Texts especially like Romans 14 need to be wrestled with deeply before making such claims regarding separation.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I appreciate this point and will develop an exegetical case for a potential future post.  There is something to be learned by the separationist movement.  Many of us need to seek to live as a â€œholy nation, a royal priesthood.â€ (1 Pet. 2:9)  This involves consecration.  Perhaps we should strive to be â€œconsecrationistsâ€ instead of â€œseparationists.â€  As Christians seeking to be salt and light, we need to be in the world, but not of the world.  Separationists do well at not being of the world, but [perhaps] fall short on the being in the world part.  As Christâ€™s Church I suggest we be set apart for a purpose [consecrated], but not separated from the world thereby defeating that very purpose [evangelization]. 

And continuing:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
In Christian painting, what does it mean to paint "in a way that honors the Creator." Isn't all truth and beauty God's in that He is the source of both and the ultimate interpreter of both? If so, then wouldn't any painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aesthetics (i.e. proper shape, proportion, angles, coloring, etc.) honor God just as much as a painting that directly reveals a biblical theme, such as a portrait of Moses?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I absolutely agree with you on this point.  I had written: â€œart in all its forms should be created to the glory of God. For the painter, this does not necessarily mean painting depictions of the atonement or the resurrection, but painting any theme in a way that honors the Creatorâ€.   The point here was to encourage Christians to not limit themselves to explicitly religious themes.  

There can be significant pressure on Christian painters and musicians to produce explicitly Christian art.  Artists should not feel they have to work with explicitly religious themes, but should understand â€œany painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aestheticsâ€ honors God.  Christians should understand that whatever art they produce is â€œChristianâ€ [but not perfect or sinless] because it came from a Christian. Part of being salt and light in the world involves demonstrating to unbelievers how a Christian should respond in different situations.  I explained:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Can a Christian man write and perform a song about a girl he is romantically interested in? Absolutely - in fact, it should not only be permissible, but encouraged. How are we to reach the world if we do not provide the Biblical point of view with regard to situations such as these?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Art can be used to communicate the Christian worldview to unbelievers.  The world must know that Christians do experience romantic love, but that romantic love is not the ultimate love.  We must demonstrate the love of Christ and show how the love [and lust] the world offers falls short.  Art not only glorifies God, but can be used for evangelism and teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the purpose of this post, I chose three examples of what I view as insufficient biblical worldviews.  These examples were in no way to be definitive or exhaustive, but simple, brief examples.  The first two (home schooling and Christian music) were designed to illustrate a focus on a Christian â€œseparationistâ€ mindset or over-secularization.  The [terribly simplistic] theonomy example was intended to show the other side of secularization â€“ instead of separating from the world, you move to influence the world [primarily through government] in an attempt to assimilate the world.</p>
<p>My intention was not to claim that all home schooling proliferates a misunderstanding of the Christianâ€™s responsibility to their children, but that those who already have the â€œseparationistâ€ mindset proliferate the misunderstanding.  I repeatedly used words such as â€œoccasionallyâ€ to limit these statements to a small subset of [in this example] home schooling people.  Certainly there are other groups of Christians that can fall prey to a separatist worldview.</p>
<p>As far as what the proper understanding of raising children should be, I would [briefly] say the parentâ€™s responsibility is to teach their children Godâ€™s precepts and to help apply Biblical truth [primarily] in the childâ€™s life situations.  For example, if a child is caught shoplifting a pack of gum, the parentâ€™s responsibility would be to [along with punish] show the child how shoplifting dishonors God and to offer the child Godâ€™s love and forgiveness in order to help him/her understand his/her sin and the possibility of redemption through Jesus Christ.  Parents should teach their children how to be salt and light in the world, not just to teach them to stay away from the world.  I believe a Christian parent has a certain amount of freedom deciding how they want to do this â€“ whether that involves home schooling or not is up to the parent.</p>
<p>You wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Further, not all behind what these Baptist-types are doing and saying is wrong. Much of the separationist movement is motivated by a genuine desire to be holy (which is certainly a valid biblical mandate). I think to give a fair argument you need to do some more work evaluating both sides of the coin. I&#8217;m not sure that quoting <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+9%3A19-21" title="English Standard Version Bible">1 Cor 9:19-21</a> is enough support. Texts especially like <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Romans+14" title="English Standard Version Bible">Romans 14</a> need to be wrestled with deeply before making such claims regarding separation.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I appreciate this point and will develop an exegetical case for a potential future post.  There is something to be learned by the separationist movement.  Many of us need to seek to live as a â€œholy nation, a royal priesthood.â€ (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Pet+2%3A9" title="English Standard Version Bible">1 Pet. 2:9</a>)  This involves consecration.  Perhaps we should strive to be â€œconsecrationistsâ€ instead of â€œseparationists.â€  As Christians seeking to be salt and light, we need to be in the world, but not of the world.  Separationists do well at not being of the world, but [perhaps] fall short on the being in the world part.  As Christâ€™s Church I suggest we be set apart for a purpose [consecrated], but not separated from the world thereby defeating that very purpose [evangelization]. </p>
<p>And continuing:</p>
<blockquote><p>
In Christian painting, what does it mean to paint &#8220;in a way that honors the Creator.&#8221; Isn&#8217;t all truth and beauty God&#8217;s in that He is the source of both and the ultimate interpreter of both? If so, then wouldn&#8217;t any painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aesthetics (i.e. proper shape, proportion, angles, coloring, etc.) honor God just as much as a painting that directly reveals a biblical theme, such as a portrait of Moses?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I absolutely agree with you on this point.  I had written: â€œart in all its forms should be created to the glory of God. For the painter, this does not necessarily mean painting depictions of the atonement or the resurrection, but painting any theme in a way that honors the Creatorâ€.   The point here was to encourage Christians to not limit themselves to explicitly religious themes.  </p>
<p>There can be significant pressure on Christian painters and musicians to produce explicitly Christian art.  Artists should not feel they have to work with explicitly religious themes, but should understand â€œany painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aestheticsâ€ honors God.  Christians should understand that whatever art they produce is â€œChristianâ€ [but not perfect or sinless] because it came from a Christian. Part of being salt and light in the world involves demonstrating to unbelievers how a Christian should respond in different situations.  I explained:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Can a Christian man write and perform a song about a girl he is romantically interested in? Absolutely - in fact, it should not only be permissible, but encouraged. How are we to reach the world if we do not provide the Biblical point of view with regard to situations such as these?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Art can be used to communicate the Christian worldview to unbelievers.  The world must know that Christians do experience romantic love, but that romantic love is not the ultimate love.  We must demonstrate the love of Christ and show how the love [and lust] the world offers falls short.  Art not only glorifies God, but can be used for evangelism and teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence O.</title>
		<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.solagratia.org/?p=30#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your article. I appreciate the intent behind the article. However, I too think that the arguments need some tightening.

For example, the "home schooling" section is unfairly narrow. Home schoolers are not the only ones who can be caricatured as those to whome "[s]eparation becomes a means to the end of raising children biblically."

In the fundamentalist Baptist world, almost the whole movement operates in this separation = holiness manner. Whole churches and schools (i.e. Bob Jones University, Pensacola Christian College, Ambassador Bible College, etc.) teach this radical dichotomy, not just a few home schoolers.

Also, it seems unfair to claim that home schooling "proliferates a misunderstanding of the Christian's responsibility to their children," and then to not provide what you think is a proper understanding of how a Christian should raise children. Are we to assume that you think all Christians should force their children to attend government schools, private Christian schools, Catholic schools, magnet schools. . . ?

Further, not all behind what these Baptist-types are doing and saying is wrong. Much of the separationist movement is motivated by a genuine desire to be holy (which is certainly a valid biblical mandate). I think to give a fair argument you need to do some more work evaluating both sides of the coin. I'm not sure that quoting 1 Cor 9:19-21 is enough support. Texts especially like Romans 14 need to be wrestled with deeply before making such claims regarding separation.

Also, your conclusion seems to reflect Jesus' Sermon on the Mount exhortation for Christians to be salt and light. This is a good thing. But maybe you could clarify what you mean by your specific examples.

In Christian painting, what does it mean to paint "in a way that honors the Creator." Isn't all truth and beauty God's in that He is the source of both and the ultimate interpretator of both? If so, then wouldn't any painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aesthetics (i.e. proper shape, proportion, angles, coloring, etc.) honor God just as much as a painting that directly reveals a biblical theme, such as a portrait of Moses? If you don't clarify this point, you may end up sounding like the very separationist dichotomists on this point.

For music, what is "a Biblical understanding of these situations in light of our culture-forming responsibilities"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your article. I appreciate the intent behind the article. However, I too think that the arguments need some tightening.</p>
<p>For example, the &#8220;home schooling&#8221; section is unfairly narrow. Home schoolers are not the only ones who can be caricatured as those to whome &#8220;[s]eparation becomes a means to the end of raising children biblically.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the fundamentalist Baptist world, almost the whole movement operates in this separation = holiness manner. Whole churches and schools (i.e. Bob Jones University, Pensacola Christian College, Ambassador Bible College, etc.) teach this radical dichotomy, not just a few home schoolers.</p>
<p>Also, it seems unfair to claim that home schooling &#8220;proliferates a misunderstanding of the Christian&#8217;s responsibility to their children,&#8221; and then to not provide what you think is a proper understanding of how a Christian should raise children. Are we to assume that you think all Christians should force their children to attend government schools, private Christian schools, Catholic schools, magnet schools. . . ?</p>
<p>Further, not all behind what these Baptist-types are doing and saying is wrong. Much of the separationist movement is motivated by a genuine desire to be holy (which is certainly a valid biblical mandate). I think to give a fair argument you need to do some more work evaluating both sides of the coin. I&#8217;m not sure that quoting <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+9%3A19-21" title="English Standard Version Bible">1 Cor 9:19-21</a> is enough support. Texts especially like <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Romans+14" title="English Standard Version Bible">Romans 14</a> need to be wrestled with deeply before making such claims regarding separation.</p>
<p>Also, your conclusion seems to reflect Jesus&#8217; Sermon on the Mount exhortation for Christians to be salt and light. This is a good thing. But maybe you could clarify what you mean by your specific examples.</p>
<p>In Christian painting, what does it mean to paint &#8220;in a way that honors the Creator.&#8221; Isn&#8217;t all truth and beauty God&#8217;s in that He is the source of both and the ultimate interpretator of both? If so, then wouldn&#8217;t any painting that follows God-ordained principles of natural law in aesthetics (i.e. proper shape, proportion, angles, coloring, etc.) honor God just as much as a painting that directly reveals a biblical theme, such as a portrait of Moses? If you don&#8217;t clarify this point, you may end up sounding like the very separationist dichotomists on this point.</p>
<p>For music, what is &#8220;a Biblical understanding of these situations in light of our culture-forming responsibilities&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: C. Ryan Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.solagratia.org/2005/11/23/christian-culture-and-the-secular-realm/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Ryan Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.solagratia.org/?p=30#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Camden, 

I think you may have some more work ahead of you with regard to backing-up some of the assertions made on both home-schooling and theonomy.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Camden, </p>
<p>I think you may have some more work ahead of you with regard to backing-up some of the assertions made on both home-schooling and theonomy.</p>
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