Comments on: A Credible Profession of Faith http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/ Dealing with issues in reformed theology. Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:56:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: steve hays http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-4056 steve hays Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:07:57 +0000 http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-4056 Hi Bruce, I agree with you that terminology matters. And, for that reason, I think your objections suffers from an equivocation of terms. Saving faith is a conscious, cognitive state of mind which also requires a revealed object of knowledge. A prenatal infant (to take one example) is incapable of exercising faith in Christ. He lacks the cognitive development, and he also lacks the object of knowledge. He hasn\'t heard the gospel, and even if he had, he would be quite unable to process what he heard since he lacks the linguistic skills and powers of abstract reasoning. A \"seed\" of faith is simply a predisposition to believe—which is not at all the same thing as faith. It is a precondition for faith, not faith. Hi Bruce,

I agree with you that terminology matters. And, for that reason, I think your objections suffers from an equivocation of terms.

Saving faith is a conscious, cognitive state of mind which also requires a revealed object of knowledge.

A prenatal infant (to take one example) is incapable of exercising faith in Christ. He lacks the cognitive development, and he also lacks the object of knowledge.

He hasn\’t heard the gospel, and even if he had, he would be quite unable to process what he heard since he lacks the linguistic skills and powers of abstract reasoning.

A \”seed\” of faith is simply a predisposition to believe—which is not at all the same thing as faith.

It is a precondition for faith, not faith.

]]> By: Bruce Buchanan http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-4004 Bruce Buchanan Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:17:59 +0000 http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-4004 Wow, Aaron, You mouth off in the least-expected places. I guess you migrated over here from Hays\' Triablog? Something tells me that unless you get well acquainted with Christian theology, you\'re not really entering the conversation over here. Not that you took the trouble to notice, but I *disagreed* with Steve. That was the entire substance of my comment. All that the infant PERSON has to do to be saved is apprehend the Savior. That is faith receiving and resting. That Jesus Christ is practically the first external awareness of the person, perhaps even before he is \'aware\' he\'s hungry or physically dead, is nothing contradictory to a worldview that includes immaterial reality. It\'s a spiritual awareness anyway, regardless of the age of regeneration followed by conversion. If that doesn\'t fit into an Objectivist/philosphical materialist worldview, well, maybe this blog isn\'t a reasonable place for you to try your hand at intelligent commentary. As you are well aware from the Christians you\'ve interacted with, we hold there are no TRUE atheists anyway, just suppressors of truths they\'d (you\'d) rather not be true. If wishes were horses... A child is born with an underdeveloped awareness of God, just like the rest of him is underdeveloped. So, contrary to your *assertion,* the Bible asserts that all infants are theists. Your authoritative word vs. God\'s? Hmmmm. Wow, Aaron, You mouth off in the least-expected places.

I guess you migrated over here from Hays\’ Triablog? Something tells me that unless you get well acquainted with Christian theology, you\’re not really entering the conversation over here.

Not that you took the trouble to notice, but I *disagreed* with Steve. That was the entire substance of my comment. All that the infant PERSON has to do to be saved is apprehend the Savior. That is faith receiving and resting.

That Jesus Christ is practically the first external awareness of the person, perhaps even before he is \’aware\’ he\’s hungry or physically dead, is nothing contradictory to a worldview that includes immaterial reality. It\’s a spiritual awareness anyway, regardless of the age of regeneration followed by conversion. If that doesn\’t fit into an Objectivist/philosphical materialist worldview, well, maybe this blog isn\’t a reasonable place for you to try your hand at intelligent commentary.

As you are well aware from the Christians you\’ve interacted with, we hold there are no TRUE atheists anyway, just suppressors of truths they\’d (you\’d) rather not be true. If wishes were horses…

A child is born with an underdeveloped awareness of God, just like the rest of him is underdeveloped. So, contrary to your *assertion,* the Bible asserts that all infants are theists. Your authoritative word vs. God\’s? Hmmmm.

]]> By: Aaron Kinney http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-3999 Aaron Kinney Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:37:29 +0000 http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-3999 "For example, elect infants who die in infancy are saved by regeneration rather than faith. At the same time, saving faith is the fruit of a regenerate root." So much for your "...faith as the *instrument* of every individual salvation," Bruce Buchanan. Funny how atheists can be saved by regeneration as long as they are only INFANTS. There's no such thing as a Christian, or even theist, infant. “For example, elect infants who die in infancy are saved by regeneration rather than faith. At the same time, saving faith is the fruit of a regenerate root.”

So much for your “…faith as the *instrument* of every individual salvation,” Bruce Buchanan.

Funny how atheists can be saved by regeneration as long as they are only INFANTS. There’s no such thing as a Christian, or even theist, infant.

]]> By: Bruce Buchanan http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-3994 Bruce Buchanan Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:28:35 +0000 http://blog.solagratia.org/2007/02/15/a-credible-profession-of-faith/#comment-3994 Good article. I like the "theses" format of your analysis. One point of comment. I think it is a mistake to state that infants (for example) are NOT saved by faith, but by regeneration. We might as well say the same thing about adults. But we shouldn't, and we don't. The terminology is important. What saves an elect infant is its faithful apprehension of the Savior. The rest of what you said is perfectly compatible with this truth. The faith of a regenerate infant is but a seed, but it is a living seed, one that germinates no later than the disolution of soul and body at death. Growth in grace (as you pointed out) is then almost completely if not exclusively part of that person's blissful time in eternity. So, we all--as we continue in faith for all eternity--are saved forever by faith in our Savior. My (slight) protest regards what I think is an infelicitous and unnecessary slide away from recognizing faith as the *instrument* of every individual salvation. Many blessings to you. Good article.
I like the “theses” format of your analysis.

One point of comment. I think it is a mistake to state that infants (for example) are NOT saved by faith, but by regeneration. We might as well say the same thing about adults. But we shouldn’t, and we don’t. The terminology is important.

What saves an elect infant is its faithful apprehension of the Savior. The rest of what you said is perfectly compatible with this truth. The faith of a regenerate infant is but a seed, but it is a living seed, one that germinates no later than the disolution of soul and body at death. Growth in grace (as you pointed out) is then almost completely if not exclusively part of that person’s blissful time in eternity.

So, we all–as we continue in faith for all eternity–are saved forever by faith in our Savior. My (slight) protest regards what I think is an infelicitous and unnecessary slide away from recognizing faith as the *instrument* of every individual salvation.

Many blessings to you.

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